Saturday, June 7, 2008

Science Vs. God

“Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ.” The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

“You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?”

“Yes sir,” the student says.

“So you believe in God?”

“Absolutely.”

“Is God good?”

“Sure! God’s good.”

“Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?”

“Yes.”

“Are you good or evil?”

“The Bible says I’m evil.”

The professor grins knowingly. “Aha! The Bible!” He considers for a moment.

“Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?”

“Yes sir, I would.”

“So you’re good...!”

“I wouldn’t say that.”

“But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t.”

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. “He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?”

The student remains silent.

“No, you can’t, can you?” the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

“Let’s start again, young fella Is God good?”

“Er...yes,” the student says.

“Is Satan good?”

The student doesn’t hesitate on this one. “No.”

“Then where does Satan come from?”

The student : “From...God...”

“That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?”

“Yes, sir.”

“Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything, correct?”

“Yes.”

“So who created evil?” The professor continued, “If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.”

Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: “Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?”

The student: “Yes.”

“So who created them?”

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. “Who created them? There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

“Tell me,” he continues onto another student. “Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?”

The student’s voice is confident: “Yes, professor, I do.”

The old man stops pacing. “Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?”

“No sir. I’ve never seen Him”

“Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?”

“No, sir, I have not.”

“Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?”

“No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.”

“Yet you still believe in him?”

“Yes.”

“According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?”

“Nothing,” the student replies. “I only have my faith.”


“Yes, faith,” the professor repeats. “And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.”

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of his own. “Professor, is there such thing as heat?”

“Yes,” the professor replies. “There’s heat.”

“And is there such a thing as cold?”

“Yes, son, there’s cold too.”

“No sir, there isn’t.”

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.

“You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything called ‘cold’. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.”

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

“What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?”

“Yes,” the professor replies without hesitation. “What is night if it isn’t darkness?”

“You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?”

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester “So what point are you making, young man?”

“Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.”

The professor’s face cannot hide his surprise this time. “Flawed? Can you explain how?”

“You are working on the premise of duality,” the student explains. “You argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.”

“Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?”

“If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do”

“Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?”

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

“Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?”

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

“To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.”

The student looks around the room. “Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?” The class breaks out into laughter.

“Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelled the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?”

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. “I guess you’ll have to take them on faith.”

“Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,” the student continues. “Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?”

Now uncertain, the professor responds, “Of course, there is. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.”

To this the student replied, “Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God.

God did not create evil Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.”

The professor sat down.

36 Comments:

Steve said...

*(Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
*(Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?"

This kid's neoplatonic definition of god (as good) is un-Christian.
But I do like this post. It's fun to create a strawman argument of atheism and then rip it apart. "Haha atheism is stupid. Xtianity pwms!"

IcreateforuNme said...

I enjoyed this post.. Very good one.. Only have one additon.. And I am not saying you don't already know this. Just saying.

God is the all the nothing, the lie and the truth, the Good and the evil, God created all, he did not say I will create this, but not that.

There is no Bad and there is no good, there only is.

This is just for you, however, if you chose to post thats fine too.

Enjoy

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed this post. It mixes in well with a lot of the Christian philosophies, although not the literal interpretations of the Bible.

And please, Steve, spell out "Christianity." Even is atheism is stupid, you're not making a good case for your self through abbreviation.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't want to address such a simplistic argument by blind reference to the Bible or uninformed faith any more than by reference to blind opposition to faith - that is flawed.

Just as flawed as the idea of an atheist professor of philosophy knowing so little about theodicy, Occam's Razor, or the most basic principles of Dualism.

Nice presentation, though.

Cynical

Anonymous said...

Pretty sure any professor worth his salt would be more than aware that dark is an absence of light and that cold is an absence of heat. Evolution has been observed, and no scientist would say there was a thing such as evil. Science also doesn't believe in luck, just probability.

Other than that, entertaining nonetheless.

eric said...

biblical masturbation against a straw man foe, good times. "The professor sat down." rotflol....................

Anonymous said...

unfortunately for this post evolution is observable at on the micro scale. I really wish people who disagreed with evolution would at least take the time to know how it works. Almost all the christian example I see are spontaneous generation. Looking ignorant helps no one.

-Max Power

Mike Sangregorio said...

I still think there's no such thing.

Anonymous said...

The argument the student makes is flawed. We have witnessed evolution first hand. This is why many bacteria are not affected by the drug
Penicillin. Through the process of natural selection. A major part of the evolutionary process. Plus, the concept that a magic man went abracadabra and made the universe is just stupid to begin with.

Anonymous said...

Comparing the existence of God to the existence of the professor's brain was such a very bad argument. Also, if evil and pain etc are the absence of God, then why did the professor's brother die of cancer when God was in his heart?

Anonymous said...

that is retarded

Anonymous said...

I'm atheist and I laughed.

Anonymous said...

I've seen this a few times before. People usually credit the student as Einstein (though that is also an obviously falsity).

It's an interesting premise but just comes off a little preachy. Maybe that's just the Atheist in me, but I doubt a professor would just sit down after all that. And a philosopher is not a scientist, so really that professor's just speaking out of his ass.

Anonymous said...

There are so many flaws in both arguments it is ridiculous. This 'scientist' was so obviously created by a Christian.

First it is silly to expect everyone to have to individually perceive something with their sensory faculties in order to 'believe' in it. Of course faith exists in the scientific community in so much as we do not perform each experiment ourselves. Similarly, I didn't have to be alive in 1943 to know that the second world war happened.

OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE THAT FITS THE MODEL. That is how we support the theories we develop about the world. There is no verifiable, objective evidence that supports the claims of any religion.
I could go on but what's the point.

Anonymous said...

Atheists are soooo funny!!!

Anonymous said...

Hello everyone.
I am really thrilled to see this post.but any way i would like to say something i dont care if it doesn't make any sentence i would say it any way. the simple think is to just relax and think of universe.as the scientists claims there is no existing of god, let just put it this way,nothing gets created by it self.if you tell me youre house just got build naturaly by nature? i dont think so.as we say god is the king of kings and god is the one who created universe.no offense let just get to bottom line , why would scientists explaine for something thats already exist.as part of our technology , all this has prtty much exist in this world,but as where humans or not smart enough to figure,god created this and he tells us that he gave us freewell. ( figure how did it got created) and now scientists claims there is no god. exaple.somebody well creat something (TECH)it will take atleast couple years for others to figure how did this person actually made this think,now emagine something like earth which is to smale compare to other planets,how did it got created? i ont think by nature. if scientists claims that thre is no god u know what maybe they should thnik little bit smarter,science come from god based on all major existing relegions ,sorry i hope i dont offence anybody here, i belive that the truth and sorry my english is not as good. i hpe u understand the point.

Manou Tepish said...

You poor deluded crispies (christians). You with your emtpty faith. Your excuse for life. For shame!

Anonymous said...

IN most of our cases, our faith is based on our own personal experience, not some man made (secular or non-secular) intellectual puzzles or riddles. Those who seek will find.
Our hope in Christ is what keeps us going when all the bad things happen in life. Our faith never teaches that we are somehow protected from the bad things in life...we most certainly are not. Why would you not want to hope for something better?
Those of us who are believers have experienced transformation on the inside. We can tell you about it all day long, but unless you trust and experience it for yourself, you will never understand. For what reason are so many of you so resistant? Is this life all there is? I think most of you out there in your heart of hearts know that as C.S. Lewis has said, We are a soul, we have a body.
Didn't mean to ramble on so, but just wanted to say something about all this in hopes that possibly one might think and trust in Christ. Although your life will still be sprinkled with challenges and unexplainable heartache at times, you will never be alone. Life is short people...you can't really think that trusting in men will provide peace or stability. Christ will provide that if you will let him and will He does not force it, but will provide it if you want it. Its your choice.

Anonymous said...

god is a fag

Anonymous said...

Replace the word God with "unicorn" and you have a very funny story.

This story also illuminates the vital flaw in the bible - that man is evil without God. You see, it's quite easy to do good without even knowing about the bible or God.

Anonymous said...

Wow, wow. I believe in god, but this is such propaganda, and bad propaganda at that. The students argument is just plain moronic, and I'm sorry, any atheists argument logically beats a Christians any day of the week. But it's not always about logic. However, Christians fail at debate, not for a lack of skill, it's just the stance they take. Logically, science beats God any day of the week, just get over it and quit making up arguments only the dumb can't see through.

Anonymous said...

I just want to know what scientists think about the beginning of time. Is it that nothing blew us and everything showed up?

Anonymous said...

am i the only one who thought, "there is evidence of the professors brain."
after all we see the professor doing things like breathing and maintaining a beating heart so, ye there is evidence of his brain.

The professor is not the brightest professor Ive seen.

And some of the Christian's arguments are flawed

RG said...

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

Read that.

Idiots.

Anonymous said...

great post, I love it.

made me really think.

Anonymous said...

There is no such thing as good and evil, just personal motives. Also, the christian representation of 'God' is completely ridiculous. The Flying Spaghetti Monster has the same amount of 'proof' as God or any other religion, or the Loch Ness monster. I also don't see why God would communicate with people in biblical times and not now, it just seems ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

Feel good ignorance. Of course most don't care about truth. It makes me sad.

Anonymous said...

Quote:
And please, Steve, spell out "Christianity." Even is atheism is stupid, you're not making a good case for your self through abbreviation.

The great thing about people who use the letter X to abbreviate Christ out of words such as Christmas is that X(well, the greek letter that looks much like it) is the first letter in the greek word "Christos". Basically, for all relevant purposes, Xmas, is just putting the greek for Christ instead of the English.

As for why God doesn't do everything we may ask of him, I can only say that there would be a lot of people winning a few pennies in the lottery every week if we got everything we asked God for. I know this doesn't help those who have lost people to diseases etc, but it applies to as much of an extent as is easily related to accross a blog comments section.

Anonymous said...

"Our hope in Christ is what keeps us going when all the bad things happen in life. Our faith never teaches that we are somehow protected from the bad things in life...we most certainly are not. Why would you not want to hope for something better?"

Yes, but you could simply remove jesus from the equation and believe in yourself that you can improve your situation.

"Those of us who are believers have experienced transformation on the inside. We can tell you about it all day long, but unless you trust and experience it for yourself, you will never understand."

I've turned around my life without christ. It's called belief in one's self.

"For what reason are so many of you so resistant?"

Intelligence, thoughts, etc.

"Is this life all there is?"

Yes.

"I think most of you out there in your heart of hearts know that as C.S. Lewis has said, We are a soul, we have a body"

No, the soul is a concept made by man, which does not truly exist. All we are is a group of chemical reactions.

"Didn't mean to ramble on so, but just wanted to say something about all this in hopes that possibly one might think and trust in Christ."

We don't care about your christ just as you don't care about my imaginary friends.

"Although your life will still be sprinkled with challenges and unexplainable heartache at times, you will never be alone."

Yes, because you have family and friends. If you are alone with christ, you will still be alone.

"Life is short people...you can't really think that trusting in men will provide peace or stability."

Why not?

"Its your choice."

Yes, and there is no reason at all that you should want to choose some imaginary friend over proven commodities such as logic and science. Have fun being delusional.

Anonymous said...

This is an incomplete version of another "story", in which the student denounces his religion and becomes an atheist.

This is such an utterly stupid story as presented here, I agree it is masturbation against a straw man foe.

What kind of "scientist" is this? A 10-year-old can form a rebuttal against those somewhat nonsensical arguments.

Yet again, blind faith fails to deliver anything worthwhile

Anonymous said...

Anyone who belives in "god" is an idiot, if you belive in "god" and the bible then you belive in Adam and Eve?! If you belive in Adam and Eve then you belive that we are all a product of incest! And im not gonna stay here and be lectured by perverts!!!!

Anonymous said...

i'm just going to throw it out there that an "absence of god" seems a counter-intuitive argument for a christian to make, you know, since god is supposed to be omnipresent. the bible itself shoots this argument down. you can't have an absence of god if god is, by the bibles definition, everywhere

kayvan said...

So what this student is telling me is rather than look into it myself and see that we have actually observed different micro organisms and fruit flys and other algae evolve, I'm just supposed to believe we came from dirt and women came from a rib (ultimately enslaving them to men.. How convenient!)and that's that. Don't you dare question this. Cold is not the absence of heat it IS. All things ARE. I call God ALL THINGS and NO THING. God does not play a magical role in our lives. He is ALL THAT IS. The space that allows me to be. But that's beside the point. This story only proves that people will make anything up just to make sure they are not wrong. There is no wrong or right answer. Your preacher does not know God any more than the Scientist. The Scientist though, will make an effort to study and experiment with"God". I have nothing against believers, bu this story does not really help their cause.

Anonymous said...

Quote:
"Anyone who belives in "god" is an idiot, if you belive in "god" and the bible then you belive in Adam and Eve?! If you belive in Adam and Eve then you belive that we are all a product of incest! And im not gonna stay here and be lectured by perverts!!!!"

I believe in God, and I believe in evolution/the big bang etc. Believing in one does not preclude the other. As such, your take is fundamentally flawed.

Also, when taking evolution into account, we are all a product of first, asexual reproduction until sexual reproduction evolved. Then, when that evolved, yes, "incest" occured. But that is how life on this planet evolved. You're stance says that magically, millions of people popped into existence and that we are not related. Go back far enough, and you can find a relation to anyone on the planet, be they black, asian, white or ginger.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it fun making ridiculous stories to justify your 2000 year old mythology?

Good for you!

Now go feed the poor, get rid of your cash, and live the way Jesus told you to... hypocrite.

Anonymous said...

Hi, I read some of your comments and honestly I think most of you are being ignorant. Atheism is not stupid, just as Christianity is not stupid. For those Christians that said that. Shame on you. That is not very Christian of you is it? Why not just accept Atheism for what it is and stop calling these people stupid for what they believe in and maybe you'll make a bigger impact of spreading Christianity, because that is our goal, right? In Christianity it is your job to spread the word and how can you do that while doing unchristian things and calling others stupid for their belief all you're going to do is shove people away, give Christianity a bad name, and make people think that all Christians are ignorant, bible-thumping, and pushy.

This goes for Atheism as well, don't call Christianity stupid for having different beliefs than you. That would be called being ignorant. I don't know much about Atheism except for the fact that it is a belief that there is no higher being. So you don't have anything to spread really except for your opinions on faith, but even so, don't be rude and ignorant like the others, you can still be a kind person and ignore the thoughtless words of the ignorant Christians out there.

And for those who wondered why the brother died of cancer in the story: Yes, God was with him and he prayed for healing and he ended up dying. But maybe that was the only healing available to him. Maybe God, who is the authority over our lives, decided it was his time to go. Maybe he was so far into the cycle of cancer he couldn't be miraculously saved.

And the other person who thinks God just went "abracadabra"; I don't have a bible on me right now, but I don't think he just went "poof" here it is, the universe. He took seven days to make the earth and everything in it and on it, so it probably took him longer to make the universe. And besides isn't there a Big Bang theory? That in some scientific way, the Earth just BAM! Popped out of no where? And also, don't call that belief stupid, just as you believe with all your might that the universe didn't go "poof", someone else believes that the universe did go "poof" with all their might.

Anyway, about the article. I am a Christian and I found the article very interesting, in fact I'm planning a Youth Group Activity based on it. Although the article is made up based on someone's thoughts, it's a very good point. And I'm sure someone, somewhere, has made that point, both the Scientist's and the Student's. Just wanted to incorporate something else besides criticism on others' behavior

Popular Posts